tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4795284845836270713.post2853194730994067154..comments2024-03-27T11:23:43.902+00:00Comments on Beaker Folk of Husborne Crawley: The Real Takeover of the Church of EnglandWodeWosehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18381754587879658356noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4795284845836270713.post-46362286175452354372018-05-04T10:18:58.868+01:002018-05-04T10:18:58.868+01:00My Archdeacon keeps me entertained in retirement b...My Archdeacon keeps me entertained in retirement by assisting parishes facing large challenges to make the necessary changes. In the several very different benefices I have worked, the one, almost the only one factor linking them all was poor leadership. It almost suggests that the BAP system is designed to weed out those who can actually lead; the easily frightened and paranoid are certainly preferred. We need exactly folk like you to become incumbents as fast as possible Your DDO may have had a point though as the techniques which work in the church resemble little those most effective in the military.jcrwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02295794084452697816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4795284845836270713.post-58237282117516504872018-05-04T10:12:02.150+01:002018-05-04T10:12:02.150+01:00What tosh! My well educated (theology, music, teac...What tosh! My well educated (theology, music, teaching) wife was bounced from a BAP at the first attempt, by a panel chaired by a woman priest (must have been one of the first) for being "Too competent"! My wife BTW came from a working class family. As my feminist mother once observed after chairing an annual meeting of the National Council of Women, "Thw worst enemies of women are other women!"jcrwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02295794084452697816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4795284845836270713.post-73422760505216206742018-05-03T10:52:25.110+01:002018-05-03T10:52:25.110+01:00Yes ! So that's Peter , James, John and Paul c...Yes ! So that's Peter , James, John and Paul crossed off the list. Lindi.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4795284845836270713.post-49840021269281376672018-05-02T16:26:52.414+01:002018-05-02T16:26:52.414+01:00I do recall hearing a sermon that suggested a BAP ...I do recall hearing a sermon that suggested a BAP would reject St Paul as unsuitable and tell St Peter to go and get a couple of A-levels and come back. Probably fairly accurate.Johttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09828021007149479362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4795284845836270713.post-31711568962473715632018-05-02T13:17:02.600+01:002018-05-02T13:17:02.600+01:00Wonder how the bloke who ran his own fishing busin...Wonder how the bloke who ran his own fishing business would have got on today. The 'son of thunder' - not quite cut of the right cloth. Lindi.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4795284845836270713.post-12531410408150311192018-05-02T11:21:28.578+01:002018-05-02T11:21:28.578+01:00Bloody Norah ... sorry you were lost to the ordain...Bloody Norah ... sorry you were lost to the ordained ministry & glad you've found a good place. Jonathan Jenningshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14745472462974217347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4795284845836270713.post-67408353460271041642018-05-01T08:17:38.922+01:002018-05-01T08:17:38.922+01:00Perhaps on reflection the social snobbery that is ...Perhaps on reflection the social snobbery that is inherent in some parts of the church has some relationship to the Army, with the Social related to Offices and Other Ranks (everyone else) and a Degree and Sandhurst Training, as opposed to be commissioned from the Ranks, as I was. Nowadays, those commissioned from the Ranks are sent to Sandhurst to knock off the rough edges, to learn knives and forks etiquette and learn their place as 2nd Class Officers. Perhaps the Church needs the same sort of training institution to do the same for those coming from the 'other ranks' to make them more sociable and marketable.UKViewerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18114944341930758335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4795284845836270713.post-18548216560025217892018-05-01T08:09:36.405+01:002018-05-01T08:09:36.405+01:00My own experience of Selection and Discernment ind...My own experience of Selection and Discernment indicated an academic snobbery within the clique of DDO and National Selectors. I come from working class stock in East London, left school at 16, worked for a time for the Post Office than joined the Army. I had no University based academic qualifications, which apparently are "evidence of academic achievement and of the ability to study". <br /><br />In my Army Career, I had acquired three Certificates of Education, the highest equivalent to A Level GCE. I had attended professional trading courses, which required written and practical work too a high standard, which eventually led to a Level 7 Qualification in Leadership and Management. I progressed from Private soldier too retiring, having been commissioned at a Major. None of this counted. I still had a bit of an Estuary accent, and was written off as a vocational tart. In other words, Level Seven at City and Guilds, isn't the same as a degree from the Poly Tech in Liturgical Dance.<br /><br />The assessors were quite senior people in public life. One a retired Professor, another a Leading Psychologist, another a leading Cleric and the leader was the spouse of a very senior CofE Cleric (a Cleric herself).<br /><br />Relating to any of them was difficult, because they really couldn't relate to me. During the discernment process, I had been encouraged to down play my military leadership experience and speech and to learn 'Church Speak' (whatever that is), having to learn a whole new language, just didn't seem possible.<br /><br />At the Pre-BAP interview, the Bishops told me not to hide my military background (contrary to his DDO opinion) and be myself. Bad advice?? The jury is out on that one.<br /><br />At a diocesan panel I shone, and was given s strong recommendation to BAP, but that counted for nothing at Shallowford.<br /><br />The BAP report was all about not fitting in, no evidence of academic achievement and doubt of my inability to undertake a course of academic study.<br /><br />So, for anyone who comes with a life time of experience in various demanding scenarios, with acknowledged and rewarded leadership qualities, but doesn't have a degree and doesn't do church speak, the assessors can't see you fitting into the social and cultural pattern of clergy and condescend to detect a strong vocation to lay ministry.<br /><br />I've got over it now, but the fact that I write in this fashion, as a response to your post, perhaps points to the fact of some residual resentment about how the Church treats those from less privileged backgrounds.<br /><br />But now am content as a Reader, having undergone the rigors of three years of academic study and passed with acceptable standards. A demonstration perhaps that the assessors at least got that part wrong.<br /><br />UKViewerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18114944341930758335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4795284845836270713.post-57240582546818651432018-04-29T19:19:08.713+01:002018-04-29T19:19:08.713+01:00I certainly recognise the Church of England that i...I certainly recognise the Church of England that is portrayed in this article.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05713203933943365911noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4795284845836270713.post-36999111543517357302018-04-29T19:00:22.750+01:002018-04-29T19:00:22.750+01:00My husband still has flashbacks when we pass Shall...My husband still has flashbacks when we pass Shallowford on the M6 (despite being accepted). Torquemada has nothing on the Church of England.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4795284845836270713.post-73483386860302014312018-04-29T18:35:26.390+01:002018-04-29T18:35:26.390+01:00Mmmmmmmm Lidl sherry - reserve some for me.Mmmmmmmm Lidl sherry - reserve some for me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4795284845836270713.post-15470756881324824122018-04-29T18:19:24.991+01:002018-04-29T18:19:24.991+01:00Although, to be fair, if you’re at a cash-strapped...Although, to be fair, if you’re at a cash-strapped church, the communion wine is likely to be Lidl sherry, so best get a taste for it early ...Philippanoreply@blogger.com